Al-Huda
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the Message Continues ... 5/101
Newsletter for January 2010
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Hassan Abbas's interview with Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton
I conducted an interview on December 10 with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington, DC about Pakistan and the United States' relations with the Muslim world, originally published on my blog Watandost.
HASSAN ABBAS: During your recent visit to Pakistan,
you won the hearts of many through your courageous outreach --
visiting Badshahi mosque, participating in television talk
shows, interacting with students at country's premier
educational institution Government College Lahore, and most
importantly going to the mausoleum of Mohammad Iqbal, the
poet-philosopher who gave the idea of Pakistan. Even those who
are critical of the U.S. policy were appreciative of these
gestures and it served an important message to those Pakistani
politicians also who are not in touch with masses.
What were the signs of hope that you gauged during this visit?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, first, the resilience and the
courage of the Pakistani people. Everywhere I went, I met people
who are speaking out and standing up and working hard, and that
was extremely moving to me. I also felt like both the civilian
government and the military leadership understood that the
threat they faced had to be addressed.
And I thought that was very promising, because the terrorist
threat to Pakistanis growing and it's intense and it can only be
defeated by the Pakistani people coming together and rejecting
it, in the first instance, trying to present a different
narrative than the one that the terrorists are putting forth,
using military force where they must, but mostly by developing
the democratic institutions, by developing the country, clearly
demonstrating that Pakistan has no room for those who want to
tear down, because the Pakistan people want to build.
HASSAN ABBAS: During the said trip you also visited
police offices in Islamabad to pay tribute to the sacrifices
rendered by police officials in the fight against extremism. You
are the first and so far the only foreign leader visiting
Pakistan who thought of this. It is becoming clear in Pakistan
that the country will not be able to win this battle especially
in areas like Punjab and Karachi unless its law enforcement and
police forces are reformed and upgraded. I must confess that
this topic is of special interest to me as before my academic
career in the U.S., I was a police official in Pakistan. Also
Pakistan army cannot be expected to fight everywhere in the
country. In this context, will the U.S. be supporting police and
law enforcement reform agenda in Pakistan?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we would be honored to do so,
because I agree with you that the police truly are on the front
lines. They often have to deal with the rush of violence that
comes in cities or towns and they don't have the support they
need, they don't often have the equipment that they need. And as
you say, I met a number of police officers, both in Lahore and
in Islamabad, who are very committed, but under-resourced. And I
am more than happy to consider any request from the Pakistani
Government to help the police force, because I agree completely
that they're the front line of defense.
HASSAN ABBAS: Thank you very much. I am sure this would
make a headline in Pakistan. I have been in touch with many of
my former colleagues in the country and during my research on
the subject, I found that Pakistan police is one of the very few
organizations in the country where there is an internal
institutional effort for reform. I hope your message of support
in this sphere will be welcomed and appreciated in Pakistan.
My next question is about U.S. relations with the Muslim world.
This U.S. administration has certainly set a new tone of
dialogue, reconciliation and respect in this realm. President
Obama's speeches in Turkey and Cairo were absolutely great and
gave the right message to the Muslim audiences around the world.
What is the follow-up on that? What are the next stages of that
relationship?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, it's a great question because
we've been working very hard on follow-up, and I recently
attended a conference in Marrakesh, Morocco where we announced a
number of follow-up actions. The one that was just embraced
wholeheartedly was the idea of science envoys. I said at the
time that much of the science that we take for granted today was
really discovered and refined in prior times by Islamic scholars
and scientists. And from astronomy to algebra, there's so much
that we owe to the Muslim world, and there needs now to be a
renewed emphasis on science, which is not incompatible with
religion, and therefore, we're going to be sending Nobel science
prize winners, former heads of the National Academy of Sciences,
and so many others to visit universities and governments to try
to rekindle that with our help.
We're also investing in more English language education
programs. We're investing in more business programs,
entrepreneurship programs. We're going to start a series of
interfaith dialogues. There will be a lot of follow-up to Cairo
because we have had such demand and we're going to try to meet
it.
HASSAN ABBAS: You are known for your cordial relationship
with Pakistani diaspora in the U.S. There is a large Muslim
diaspora in the U.S. which I believe can act as a bridge between
the U.S. and the Muslim world. Which are the other Muslim
diaspora groups in the U.S. that you feel encouraged about and
which can play a positive role?
SECRETARY CLINTON: That's a great question. Well, I do
believe that the Palestinian diaspora has been galvanized around
economic development. A number of my Palestinian American
friends are making investments in the West Bank because the
security has improved so much, thanks to the good work of
President Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad. So there is a rather
dramatic increase in the economic activity in the West Bank
which many American Palestinians are investing in.
There are a number of Indian Muslims who are very involved in
interfaith and other outreach activities. I do a lot of work
with the Bangladeshi community, which is not as involved as the
Pakistani community has been in academia or in professional
activity, but is really at the grassroots in a lot of countries
-- or a lot of cities in our country. So I think those are some
examples of what we're working on.
HASSAN ABBAS: My last question is about India-Pakistan
relations. The United States has said many times that it would
like to facilitate better India-Pakistan relations and I think
there's no doubt about the sincerity of that purpose. But of
course, U.S. has its limitations in terms of how much it can do
to bring both parties on the table and perhaps India is not very
comfortable with the idea of third party mediation because of
its stature, and reasons of history. However, President Obama
made an interesting statement on the subject during his recent
visit to China. European Union also is interested in playing a
role in this arena.
Do you think there might be some possibility in future that
E.U., China, and United States altogether can take an initiative
to bring Pakistan and India together and help them resolve their
differences. We continuously hear that peace in the Af-Pak
region is considered the most critical issue for the global
security concerns. A global approach hence can be relevant. Do
you think such an international effort can work?
SECRETARY CLINTON: I think it could be a guarantor or it
could be a positive force for implementation. But I think that
the impetus must come from the two countries themselves. And at
some point, both countries might say we've gotten as far as we
can get; therefore we need some support, we need some new
energy. But we have to start with the two countries and with
their commitment to pursuing this dialogue first.
**
Commentary. I was pleasantly surprised when out of the
blue I received a message from the State Department inviting me
to interview Secretary Clinton for my blog. I was also provided
the opportunity to sit in during the interviews she gave to Riz
Khan of Al Jazeera and a Pakistani news channel. Riz Khan's
unending series of jokes were hilarious that kept us in good
spirits while we all waited for the Secretary in a small and
cozy room at the State Department. His fun performance was as
spectacular as it was dramatic. However, I only came to know the
next day that he was testing his jokes on us -- as I heard him
repeat all those jokes in his role as the master of ceremony in
the inaugural event of the American Pakistan Foundation (APF) in
New York. Secretary Clinton was the chief guest at the event and
she made a splendid speech warming the hearts of a largely
Pakistani-American audience.
Hilary Clinton's passion for Pakistan was palpable during the
conversations I witnessed. She also referred to a special
feeling that President Obama has for Pakistan and earnestly
hoped that the U.S.-Pakistan relations would benefit from this
supporting factor. She admired the way "Pakistan has pulled
together to go after those elements of the Taliban that are
directly threatening them." What she left unsaid in this regard
also says a lot about how U.S. is viewing the situation in
Pakistan-Afghanistan border region.
Her views about U.S. role in Afghanistan and globally were also
insightful. There is a growing perception that U.S. is giving up
the state-building goal in Afghanistan while focusing entirely
on military 'surge.' She dispelled this impression effectively
when in response to a question from Riz Khan she argued that,
"military effort is essential to providing security, but
long-term stability, peace and prosperity can only come through
political reconciliation, through development, through the
enhancement of the capacity of Afghan institutions, expanding
the education system -- the kind of nuts and bolts that really
build and sustain society" and emphasized that she is working
hard for these objectives. The people of Afghanistan deserve
this and U.S. owe it to them but the fact remains that U.S.
cannot manage this alone. She acknowledged this limitation while
responding to a different question: "There's not a problem in
the world that the United States can solve alone, but I would
quickly add there is not a problem in the world that can be
solved without the United States." While the second part of this
notion is a debatable proposition, it is also surprising why
U.S. has not involved regional players to stabilize Afghanistan.
India, Iran, Turkey, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and China besides
Pakistan, all have stakes in Afghanistan and without a regional
settlement U.S. will find it very difficult to turn the tables
on growing insurgency in Afghanistan. Accommodating legitimate
interests of Afghanistan's neighbors will help.
Hillary Clinton's heartfelt concern for women rights in the
Muslim world and highlighting a dire need for interfaith
dialogue and harmony impressed me greatly. President Obama is
lucky to have her on his side at a time when U.S. is aspiring to
rebuild its image globally and looking for partners to ‘give
peace a chance.' Her vision and guidance will surely prove to be
a valuable asset for this administration.
Hassan Abbas is a Bernard Schwartz fellow at the Asia Society in
New York and a senior advisor at the Belfer Center, Harvard
Kennedy School.
Riz Khan of Al Jazeera
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